Drucken

Bitte logg dich ein oder registriere dich.
1 Stunde 1 Tag 1 Woche 1 Monat Immer
Einloggen mit Benutzername, Passwort und Sitzungslänge

[sober]

Jupp, I think that is the problem. you plan your event for 800+ people, and think that so many people will come, just because you think they would.
You need to know the scene in the place where you want to start that event.
Thinking about the last weeks I haven't heard a single Das Ich song on a Party or in a Disco I was. Perhaps you just had the wrong Lineup for the audience in hamburg.

Just saw another thing:
Compare your announcement thread (view and countwise) with some simple Partythreads int he partyboard. There are many pages of posts for our Kir-Saturday that is nearly every Saturday. When feedback for a disco evening is that much better than for a festival, you could have seen earlier, that you wont get 800 people.

[Elysium]

Hamburg is a big City,  the second biggest in Deutschland isn't it?

2 million + people?

there should be enough people in the scene to fill a venue, even if half of the scene is at a pajama party, or playing Bingo Lotto

how can anyone not want to see Das Ich?  
their show has more moving parts than the Hamburger DOM

it's true we should spend more time reading the posts in this forum
but not everyone in the scene is posting here

otherwise we would never need any other promotion (which would be much cheaper)

the problem with booking a date for a festival, is that it has to be booked Waaaaay in advance, so almost anything can come up around the same time after the date is set.   promotion is like gambling (esp. goth promotion)

Sober, are you the promoter for Kir?  we had problems finding Kir since it moved to another venue,  we like this club

So who was this promotor? Who said this festival would "draw 800+"?

can you guess why my nick is Elysium?   yes! im the promoter  :idea:

Das Ich draws 1000+ at their solo shows in many cities


in any case, we would be happy breaking even with 600
but not losing money ;((((

it would be easier and save us time just to hand out money in Hamburg,

[sober]

Well, I should as if I get some money for spreading out the Word Kir in the world.

I didn't say, that there arent many people in hamburg or that the Dom is better than Das Ich. I don't visit the Dom ;)
All I tried to say is: You are planing with people. I think you need to know the local scene to call numbers of visitors. You need to know how many people hear what music at the moment, what parties and events are in the same timeframe ... i dont believe that you can have those infos without beeing in the scene or have very much infos from "insiders".
When I think about those people I meet often, I cannot name a single person who would choose a festival with Clan of Xymox and Das Ich over a good private Party.

[astrogirl]

Well i read quite a bit of this stuff now ...  and as far as i understand u had posters ans flyers and an advertisment at the "szene" magazine ... but nothing in magazines like "orkus" or "zillo" or "sonic seducer" , i think the szene magazine ist not really the best mag to place an advertisment for a goth festival , the readers of that mag are not really the right target group.

And it is a little bit strange that u hab problems to contact the kir people, if u plan an event for more than 800 folks u should do it more professional and i really do not believe that it was impossible to find it /get in contact with the people there.
did u only advertise in hamburg? or also in the citys around like lübeck,flensburg,kiel ... because i dont think that there was a chance to get 800 hamburg people who would enjoy that kind of music ... taste changed an i think hamburg is more ebm than gothic sound like maybe other german cities ...

All in all i think u try to find someone to blame for bad advertisment /planning ....and that i really not fair!

[Jinx]

Hamburg is a big City, the second biggest in Deutschland isn't it?

2 million + people?

That' s correct.

there should be enough people in the scene to fill a venue, even if half of the scene is at a pajama party, or playing Bingo Lotto

This is Hamburg, not Berlin. Here it is quite difficult to establish a new festival oder party, due to the fact that there are quite a lot of parties etc. I just remeber the "Maschinensturm" last time... or the party in the pyramid club, which was cancelled after a few weeks, due to a lack of vistors. Besides that, hanseatic people are quite conservative and bombed by flyers on every event, so a different kind of pr might have been helpful.

Your point of view is correct from a mathematical point of view, but regarding the cultural codes here, the fact that just one weekend later there will take place a festival anyway and the poor pr, I think your point of view ist naive. We always welcome fresh ideas and the suggestion anyone did sabotage on your event, is ridiculous.
AND: we have many students and people who are on the dole, they use to think twice whether to spend their money for a festival or for a few parties.

how can anyone not want to see Das Ich?
their show has more moving parts than the Hamburger DOM

Me. I like the band, but I saw them twice and they sort of stick to their stage performance (the one with the moving parts) as much as the Christians to their bible, as it seems. Therefore I did not feel the need to see it for a third time.

it's true we should spend more time reading the posts in this forum
but not everyone in the scene is posting here

No, that is true. But not everyone is reading flyers as well. On every party there are dozens of flyers on the tables, people get a bit tired of reading them.


Regards,

Jinx

[olli]

i would like to add that dark wave isn't that big in hamburg any more. ebm and future pop are. of the 50+ people i know in the gothic scene in hamburg, i don't know a single one who would go and either see clan of xymox or das ich. lights of euphoria on the other hand appeals to the ebm/future pop people, who - as i see it - would not pay to go and see clan or ich. and lights by itself is not likely to justify the expanses for a big line-up of bands. you could do checks in various german goth boards and see what those people think of your line-up. i am affraid you will be disapointed   :?

[astrogirl]

i would like to add that dark wave isn't that big in hamburg any more. ebm and future pop are. of the 50+ people i know in the gothic scene in hamburg, i don't know a single one who would go and either see clan of xymox or das ich. lights of euphoria on the other hand appeals to the ebm/future pop people, who - as i see it - would not pay to go and see clan or ich. and lights by itself is not likely to justify the expanses for a big line-up of bands. you could do checks in various german goth boards and see what those people think of your line-up. i am affraid you will be disapointed   :?

100% agree

[Elysium]

unfortunately we missed the deadline for both Zillo and Orkus by 2 days ;(


i see know how important these forums are in Hamburg
it's a pity i didn't find my way here until very late

i have to agree with all of you that hamburg is a very different scene to any i've promoted in or partied in before

in London the are 2 groups - 1 who go only to gigs and festivals, and 1 who go only to clubs and parties

in Sweden a festival is an outdoor campsite full of drunken vikings
otherwise people go only to parties

in Berlin bands like Clan of Xymox and Das Ich play ALONE to sold out venues, and still there's enough people left over to fill other clubs

in Leipzig everyday is WGT

we wanted a mixed crowd at Elysium, so we chose Lights of Euphoria, and Elusive to draw people who were into musik other than darkwave

but we didn't want to get too elektro and collide with Out of Line
which would be bad for both fests

im glad you mentioned the ticket price,  do you think 20 EUR is too high for such a fest?

in Sweden we pay 100 or more for festival tickets, even if the bands suck

in the UK you have to pay people to drag themselves away from the tv

if we could be sure 800 + would turn up, then we could take 18,50  for tickets,  the fewer the people, the higher the tickets have to be to break even - it sucks, but that's the sucky world of economics

Markthalle can take 1200 in the Grosse Saal
it costs 2700 EUR total to hire the venue including sound & lighting and all staff + VAT

hotel rooms and catering for 5 bands and crew (30 persons) = another 2000 EUR

Travel = 2000 EUR

Promotions 1500 EUR

Merchandise (T-shirts, blablabla) 800 EUR

Total Band Fees = 6000 EUR

TOTAL = 15.000 EUR

so 750 people at 20 EUR

at 150 people we take 3000 EUR which barely covers the venue
and we lose 12.000 EUR

and that's bad bad bad

[Elysium]

another issue is that we only book bands that we ourselves like

Clan of Xymox and Das Ich are actually friends of ours
so we're a bit biased

also there are plenty of other promoters already doing elektro gigs and fests

and others doing black metal gigs and fests


if we should do a festival with a lineup outside our own taste
then we would do such a fest in a city where 5000 or more would come
and then spend the money on doing fests we like, in a city we like
(we like Hamburg)

[kb]

I still don't  know how it can be hard to find the Kir.. I just tested typing "kir hamburg" into Google. The first hit was the Kir's website, and two clicks later I had all necessary contact info and the address. Finding out what parties are going on there would have taken me two more clicks at max...

... so whatever ;)

[BloodRayne]

agree

[Anonymous]

As you wrote: bad luck

And friday is not my day …

[Elysium]

we still look for clubs and parties the old fashion way
by picking up flyers

we found out Kir moved only by going to Max Braur Allee and reading the sign

then we tried to find the address using U-bahn maps
but we got lost in Altona  ;((