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[olli]

as long as we don't get solid proof, i suggest to ignore this topic.

[Elysium]

Das Ich fans came to check for themselves that there was a Festival
after hearing from the DJ at Schwarzen Nacht that it was cancelled

is this true?

they told this to the members of Das Ich

are these people lying?  if so, why?

we do not want Hamburg to take our word for anything

being outsiders from Sweden we had no knowlendge of other promoters before we came to Hamburg to do a festival

during the weeks before the event we were warned by everyone that
another promoter was trying to destroy us

we've supported other events in Hamburg with links from our site

we even bought  tickets to other events

who could have been involved with removing the promotion?

who would benefit from it?


if this were just a simple party it wouldn't matter to us

when 12.000 EUR are involved then it gets serious

[sober]

sorry, you came here to flame someone because your heard from people telling you what they heard? your informations aren't first hand?

I can understand, that it sucks when there aren't enough people coming to a festival you organized. But I cannot understand that you try to blame someone other than perhaps yourself, your team, your advertising partners or the fact that the audience in hamburg isn't what you excepted.


I think, befor you blame someone:
1. get some hard facts and no "I heard something from someone who heard ..."
2. talk to the person himself.


posting this kind flames on one of the mainboard of the hamburg community, without naming a single fact won't make it more easy for you to get some success here.
You earn peoples respect with work and not with flaming others.

[colourize]

Hmmm....

1. Due to my information René is not involved in all the scene events in Hamburg... "Schwarze Nacht" isn't a "Living Dead" Party.

2. The Line-Up of Out of Line and Elysium is very different.. I don't think that these events are in a competition.

Very strange.. I hope that René will explain his point of view...

[Elysium]

to those responsible for sabotaging the Elysium Festival..

whoever you are


we will survive

[Novocaine]

when 12.000 EUR are involved then it's a serious issue

whomeever is responsible for sabotaging the festival owes us 12.000 EUR

Oh, do you know that libel and slander could cost you much more than 12.000 €?

[olli]

Das Ich fans came to check for themselves that there was a Festival
after hearing from the DJ at Schwarzen Nacht that it was cancelled

the dj at “schwarze nacht” is called andreas, not rené. these two persons are not related business wise.

they told this to the members of Das Ich

are these people lying? why should they lie?

we do not expect Hamburg to take our word for anything

we can only state was has been told to us by those who claim to know

as others said before, this is third hand information, which doesn’t prove anything.

if we are mistaken, then please prove it to us
and we will appologize to René

nobody has to prove the anything to you, since it is you who is putting up accusations in the first place, hence it is you who has to provide proof. and it is definitely you who will have to appologize to rené.

are these people lying? why should they lie?

what do we care? this is a bad world. you can lie all you like and still become american president.

we were told by this same Markthalle staff that René is involved in all the scene events in Hamburg

then you were told wrong. there are several events rené has nothing to do with.

if René was not involved with removing the promotion
then who?

someone else? perhaps no one? most likely your promotion team, though i do not want to put up accusations that could be wrong.

whomeever is responsible for sabotaging the festival owes us 12.000 EUR

sorry about your loss, but posting here is not going to get you back your money, nor is it going to damage rené.

[olli]

i have an idea,  

let's let the Hamburg scene investigate what happened and report back to us


we will accept whatever evidence for or against a conspiracy you can give us


revenge is not in our interest

we just want to know what happened


give us some answers please

meanwhile i will edit out all references to René and Living Dead until some concrete evidence arrises

sorry again, but we don't have to prove anything to you. it is you who has to supply proof, or else this debate is meaningless

[Elysium]

you're absolutely right

so, here is some first hand evidence

Q.  what physical proof exists of sabotage?

1:  Markthalle posters with Elysium date covered over, but not any other event covered over
2:  Elysium posters ripped into pieces or removed completely from walls
3: huge stacks of Elysium flyers vanishing overnight
4. 150 people turn up at the door,  30% claim that they were told the festival was cancelled

[livingdead]

Ich bin ziemlich entsetzt und sauer über diese Anschuldigungen von Dorian! Diese Anschuldigungen sind infame Lügen! Ich habe nie etwas gegen dieses Festival unternommen und wüßte auch nicht warum ich das tun soll. Wer mich ein wenig kennt, weiß das ich so etwas NIE tun würde!

Ich bin ziemlich sauer und werde, wenn ich aus Berlin zurück bin noch eine ausführliche Stellungsnahme dazu schreiben! Sollte Dorian diese Aussagen nicht zurück nehmen und sich entschuldigen, werde ich wohl meinen Anwalt einschalten müssen!

STINKSAUER
René

[sober]

So, you have paranoia and we have to find the ghost?
you say you come from norway? (sorry if I am wrong)
Maybe your advertising team did bad work and hoped you don't see it, coz you are too far away.
How can SuperTorus see Posters of your Festival on Saturday, when he was in the Markhalle, when they were all gone on Friday?
Why should anyone here, anyone of us ~350 people sabotage your festival?
I ask, because you are coming here and blame us (or anyone from this forum) for sabotaging your event.
I dunno if you know that our right sais: As long as not proven otherwise a person is innocent. So coming here and calling someone a liar and telling people that this person did something without any facts, waiting that he defends himself, is the wrong way...
to denial someone is offence btw.

[Elysium]

- Hamburg's party/concert scene went along pretty well without such kindergarden stuff for years. What makes the Elysium festival so different and so dangerous that a well-known party organiser would totally freak out and do everything possible to make people not come to it?

tickets for Elysium were 20 EUR

a line up including Clan of Xymox, Das Ich, and Lights of Euphoria should pull 800+ people

many people cannot be bothered, or cannot afford to go spend this much money twice within 1 week,  or 30+ EUR in the same night

So, you have paranoia and we have to find the ghost?
you say you come from norway? (sorry if I am wrong)

we come from Sweden

we are not being paranoid,   the proof of sabotage is as real as it gets
the only question is WHO

[sober]

and you think LD sabotaged your party because he feared that there won't be enough coming to the Out of Line festival?

Take a look at the lineup, you should see yourself that it made for differend audience

[Elysium]

who is kb :?:

[colourize]

who is kb :?:

LOL
You're getting paranoid... stay calm, ok?